Anyone near me want to play with diagnostics?

[pscan.eu]

I have had some recent luck with 75s. It seems that like buses three have come at once.
Rob Bell has lent me his ZT-T diesel for a few weeks, and I have pretty much done the GM6 already and I started looking at climate control and instruments.
At the same time I found an early 1.8 75 that was been abandoned and about to be scrapped, I managed to remove I think every ECU from that so I can make my own "75 in a box".
I also found a ZT V8 in Ruislip.
I went and knocked on the guys door last night and he is willing to let me play with it.

So here is the question. What is the same about a V8 as other 75s and what is different? So what do I need to focus on whilst I have access to this guys V8 in Ruislip?

His car has factory reversing sensors so I will play with that as my other guinea pigs don't have that.
Also the Ford engine ECU is specific to the V8, but I already have a Ford Mustang ECU and so it will be interesting to see to what extent they are different or the same.
The obvious thing is the intermediate ECU (the one that converts from Rover/BMW protocols to Ford). I know that these are difficult to find and so that's one I should obviously concentrate on.

I am guessing that GM6, SRS, Instruments, EWS3, Climate control will all be the same as a non V8? Can anyone on here clarify?

thanks, Philip

[Burwell Mike]

I am guessing that GM6, SRS, Instruments, EWS3, Climate control will all be the same as a non V8? Can anyone on here clarify?

thanks, Philip

I think the climate control on V8's has a different ecu. Some time ago I fitted an aftermarket control panel from Mat at DMGRS which would not work on the V8 (full heat whatever setting it was on). This panel works perfectly on standard cars so something is different on the V8. Sorry can't help with other items.

Mike

[David]

I think the climate control on V8's has a different ecu. Some time ago I fitted an aftermarket control panel from Mat at DMGRS which would not work on the V8 (full heat whatever setting it was on). This panel works perfectly on standard cars so something is different on the V8. Sorry can't help with other items.

Mike

Odd thing is that a regular 75 panel (2000 and 2003, MGR) works just fine in my R75V8 and vice versa. Was playing around swapping them a few years back to see if that improved things, which it didn't, of course. Part number is identical on all of them, so there is something odd about the 'after-market' panels (MG7?) only perhaps. Differences in the HVAC design between 260 and RV8 are well known of course, as well as the obvious major differences between V8/non-V8 of both variants. Looks like that stretches to other HVAC electronics bits-and-pieces rather than the panel and its packaged electronics, from what you say Mike.

David

[Burwell Mike]

Hi David,

As you say there must be a subtle difference in the outputs of the aftermarket panel that messes with the V8 HVAC signals to the heating valve. There is a HVAC ECU on V8's that I can't find listed as a standard 75/ZT item. Unfortunately as Rimmers no longer provide part numbers on their listings for NLA items it is difficult to do a conclusive search, but I cannot see the same item on the 75/ZT heater assemby diagrams (Item 5 on the V8 diagram).

I have often thought that gremlins in this additional ecu is what causes heating problems on some cars and not others, or possibly just a dodgy connection to it. The HVAC has always worked perfectly on #431 (touching wood as I type!) but fitting the aftermarket panel showed the ecu was sensitive to different inputs

Mike

[David]

.... Unfortunately as Rimmers no longer provide part numbers on their listings for NLA items it is difficult to do a conclusive search, but I cannot see the same item on the 75/ZT heater assemby diagrams (Item 5 on the V8 diagram)...
Mike

Should be possible to find that on the EPC. Mine has gone on the blink, I'm afraid (or to be more precise the only old Windows XP computer I still have that will run the EPC).

David

[re-tread]

Hi David,

As you say there must be a subtle difference in the outputs of the aftermarket panel that messes with the V8 HVAC signals to the heating valve. There is a HVAC ECU on V8's that I can't find listed as a standard 75/ZT item. Unfortunately as Rimmers no longer provide part numbers on their listings for NLA items it is difficult to do a conclusive search, but I cannot see the same item on the 75/ZT heater assemby diagrams (Item 5 on the V8 diagram).

I have often thought that gremlins in this additional ecu is what causes heating problems on some cars and not others, or possibly just a dodgy connection to it. The HVAC has always worked perfectly on #431 (touching wood as I type!) but fitting the aftermarket panel showed the ecu was sensitive to different inputs

Mike

If the ECU you are thinking about is the one mounted on the heater box under the dash then it is part number JFW000011. I was hoping that changing that would sort out my heater gremlins but alas no.

[SCP440]

Yes I did the same, it was like a furnace. Odd that the control panel is the same though.

Steve

[Scarlet Fever]

Not much to add other than I know Rob Bell & he was singing the PScan praises when we last met up - i'm definitely interested in buying one when it is ready for my V8. Would love to volunteer my car too, but although i am relatively local (Essex), the car is not (it's away having a supercharger fitted). Not sure if the blower will affect the PScan, i presume the same sensors will be doing the same jobs, but just at different rates. Once done, am happy to get together so you can have a play with a blown car.

Lastly, i read with interest the notes on the information coming out of the Ford ECU. One of the niggles with the V8 is that there are limits to what the car's BCU & the Engine ECU can understand - the Gateway doesn't do much translating beyond the essentials. This means the onboard driver computer is really very limited in it's functionality - it doesn't even have an instant or average fuel consumption display. As you can imagine, on a 4.6l V8 this is sorely missed!

I believe the Torque App is capable of reading a lot of this data, but it would be good if there was some way to integrate it into the car's IPK display rather than an OBDII dongle & an app (on your phone or head unit). Seems to me that step one is cracking the ECUs language & outputs & it sounds like you are a long way along this road.

[pscan.eu]

Not much to add other than I know Rob Bell & he was singing the PScan praises when we last met up - i'm definitely interested in buying one when it is ready for my V8. Would love to volunteer my car too, but although i am relatively local (Essex), the car is not (it's away having a supercharger fitted). Not sure if the blower will affect the PScan, i presume the same sensors will be doing the same jobs, but just at different rates. Once done, am happy to get together so you can have a play with a blown car.

Lastly, i read with interest the notes on the information coming out of the Ford ECU. One of the niggles with the V8 is that there are limits to what the car's BCU & the Engine ECU can understand - the Gateway doesn't do much translating beyond the essentials. This means the onboard driver computer is really very limited in it's functionality - it doesn't even have an instant or average fuel consumption display. As you can imagine, on a 4.6l V8 this is sorely missed!

I believe the Torque App is capable of reading a lot of this data, but it would be good if there was some way to integrate it into the car's IPK display rather than an OBDII dongle & an app (on your phone or head unit). Seems to me that step one is cracking the ECUs language & outputs & it sounds like you are a long way along this road.

Thank you for the kind words.

The guy who has one in Ruislip tells me that he wants to sell his (it's a green ZT 260, 60,000 miles and totally unmodified by the way) so I have to get as much done as quickly as I can.

I doubt whether super charging will effect pscan. It would be interesting to find out.

So I think that there is something called the HEVAC, I'm not sure if that's different to the heater controls. T4 warns you that it has to shut down the HEVAC before it can log in; non V8s don't do that.

There is the Gateway ECU which my T4 doesn't talk to very well, but I have gotten enough out of it that with access to this fellow's car I might be able to do something anyway.

The engine ECU (I guess via the Gateway ECU) does give more data than an EOBD scanner and I think I will be able to crack it, so worth doing.

One strange thing is that when you connect an EOBD tool it talks to a V8 in Ford mode, just as it would to a Mustang ECU (I have one). So it seems to me that you can talk to the engine ECU either directly the Ford way, or the Rover way through the Gateway ECU.

Probably Rover thought that it would be cheaper to do the diagnostics through a Gateway ECU and continue to use BMW style diagnostics that to change the T4 and make all the MG Rover dealers by "new" T4s. But I'm only guessing.

Anyway the wierd thing is that I have a Ford tool that works on my Mustang ECU, but on the ZT 260... nothing. So you can talk to the ECU the Ford way with an EOBD tool in Ford mode, but a Ford tool in Ford mode not.

So, this suggests that actually Rover did modify the ECUs and they aren't "just a Ford" ECU.

Can anyone confirm?

[SWISSTONY]

The guy who has one in Ruislip tells me that he wants to sell his (it's a green ZT 260, 60,000 miles and totally unmodified by the way)

Do you happen to know if he sold it? I'd be very interested, if you would pass my details on to him I would greatly appreciate it.