Anyone near me want to play with diagnostics? - Page 3
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 33

Thread: Anyone near me want to play with diagnostics?

  1. #21
    #829 called 'Olive' David's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Breugel, Holland
    Posts
    3,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Burwell Mike View Post
    I think the climate control on V8's has a different ecu. Some time ago I fitted an aftermarket control panel from Mat at DMGRS which would not work on the V8 (full heat whatever setting it was on). This panel works perfectly on standard cars so something is different on the V8. Sorry can't help with other items.

    Mike
    Odd thing is that a regular 75 panel (2000 and 2003, MGR) works just fine in my R75V8 and vice versa. Was playing around swapping them a few years back to see if that improved things, which it didn't, of course. Part number is identical on all of them, so there is something odd about the 'after-market' panels (MG7?) only perhaps. Differences in the HVAC design between 260 and RV8 are well known of course, as well as the obvious major differences between V8/non-V8 of both variants. Looks like that stretches to other HVAC electronics bits-and-pieces rather than the panel and its packaged electronics, from what you say Mike.

    David
    2005 Rover 75 V8 Connoisseur SE #829 called 'Olive'
    2003 Rover 75 Tourer 2.5 V6
    2 x 2000 Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6
    .. all LHD

  2. #22
    Registered User Burwell Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Burwell, Cambridge
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Hi David,

    As you say there must be a subtle difference in the outputs of the aftermarket panel that messes with the V8 HVAC signals to the heating valve. There is a HVAC ECU on V8's that I can't find listed as a standard 75/ZT item. Unfortunately as Rimmers no longer provide part numbers on their listings for NLA items it is difficult to do a conclusive search, but I cannot see the same item on the 75/ZT heater assemby diagrams (Item 5 on the V8 diagram).

    I have often thought that gremlins in this additional ecu is what causes heating problems on some cars and not others, or possibly just a dodgy connection to it. The HVAC has always worked perfectly on #431 (touching wood as I type!) but fitting the aftermarket panel showed the ecu was sensitive to different inputs

    Mike

  3. #23
    #829 called 'Olive' David's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Breugel, Holland
    Posts
    3,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Burwell Mike View Post
    .... Unfortunately as Rimmers no longer provide part numbers on their listings for NLA items it is difficult to do a conclusive search, but I cannot see the same item on the 75/ZT heater assemby diagrams (Item 5 on the V8 diagram)...
    Mike
    Should be possible to find that on the EPC. Mine has gone on the blink, I'm afraid (or to be more precise the only old Windows XP computer I still have that will run the EPC).

    David
    2005 Rover 75 V8 Connoisseur SE #829 called 'Olive'
    2003 Rover 75 Tourer 2.5 V6
    2 x 2000 Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6
    .. all LHD

  4. #24
    Registered User SCP440's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Witney Oxfordshire
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    Yes I did the same, it was like a furnace. Odd that the control panel is the same though.

    Steve

  5. #25
    Evil eyes! Scarlet Fever's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Braintree, Essex, United Kingdom.
    Posts
    865

    Default

    Not much to add other than I know Rob Bell & he was singing the PScan praises when we last met up - i'm definitely interested in buying one when it is ready for my V8. Would love to volunteer my car too, but although i am relatively local (Essex), the car is not (it's away having a supercharger fitted). Not sure if the blower will affect the PScan, i presume the same sensors will be doing the same jobs, but just at different rates. Once done, am happy to get together so you can have a play with a blown car.

    Lastly, i read with interest the notes on the information coming out of the Ford ECU. One of the niggles with the V8 is that there are limits to what the car's BCU & the Engine ECU can understand - the Gateway doesn't do much translating beyond the essentials. This means the onboard driver computer is really very limited in it's functionality - it doesn't even have an instant or average fuel consumption display. As you can imagine, on a 4.6l V8 this is sorely missed!

    I believe the Torque App is capable of reading a lot of this data, but it would be good if there was some way to integrate it into the car's IPK display rather than an OBDII dongle & an app (on your phone or head unit). Seems to me that step one is cracking the ECUs language & outputs & it sounds like you are a long way along this road.
    Andrew Phillips
    MGF - 'Scarlet Fever'
    ZT 260 - 'Old number 27'
    ZS 180 - 'Loki'


  6. #26
    Roush Supercharged #138 re-tread's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wakefield
    Posts
    1,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Burwell Mike View Post
    Hi David,

    As you say there must be a subtle difference in the outputs of the aftermarket panel that messes with the V8 HVAC signals to the heating valve. There is a HVAC ECU on V8's that I can't find listed as a standard 75/ZT item. Unfortunately as Rimmers no longer provide part numbers on their listings for NLA items it is difficult to do a conclusive search, but I cannot see the same item on the 75/ZT heater assemby diagrams (Item 5 on the V8 diagram).

    I have often thought that gremlins in this additional ecu is what causes heating problems on some cars and not others, or possibly just a dodgy connection to it. The HVAC has always worked perfectly on #431 (touching wood as I type!) but fitting the aftermarket panel showed the ecu was sensitive to different inputs

    Mike
    If the ECU you are thinking about is the one mounted on the heater box under the dash then it is part number JFW000011. I was hoping that changing that would sort out my heater gremlins but alas no.
    Dave Rushfirth
    VIN 138 in Orange Grove 120k miles

    MSD Blaster Coils, K&N Air filter, XPowers and with added Roushness

    National Observer

  7. #27
    Registered User Burwell Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Burwell, Cambridge
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by re-tread View Post
    If the ECU you are thinking about is the one mounted on the heater box under the dash then it is part number JFW000011. I was hoping that changing that would sort out my heater gremlins but alas no.
    Yes that looks like the one! Oh well there goes my theory about the HVAC ecu causing the problems. Sorry that you had no joy after changing it Dave.

    Mike

  8. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Fever View Post
    Not much to add other than I know Rob Bell & he was singing the PScan praises when we last met up - i'm definitely interested in buying one when it is ready for my V8. Would love to volunteer my car too, but although i am relatively local (Essex), the car is not (it's away having a supercharger fitted). Not sure if the blower will affect the PScan, i presume the same sensors will be doing the same jobs, but just at different rates. Once done, am happy to get together so you can have a play with a blown car.

    Lastly, i read with interest the notes on the information coming out of the Ford ECU. One of the niggles with the V8 is that there are limits to what the car's BCU & the Engine ECU can understand - the Gateway doesn't do much translating beyond the essentials. This means the onboard driver computer is really very limited in it's functionality - it doesn't even have an instant or average fuel consumption display. As you can imagine, on a 4.6l V8 this is sorely missed!

    I believe the Torque App is capable of reading a lot of this data, but it would be good if there was some way to integrate it into the car's IPK display rather than an OBDII dongle & an app (on your phone or head unit). Seems to me that step one is cracking the ECUs language & outputs & it sounds like you are a long way along this road.
    Thank you for the kind words.

    The guy who has one in Ruislip tells me that he wants to sell his (it's a green ZT 260, 60,000 miles and totally unmodified by the way) so I have to get as much done as quickly as I can.

    I doubt whether super charging will effect pscan. It would be interesting to find out.

    So I think that there is something called the HEVAC, I'm not sure if that's different to the heater controls. T4 warns you that it has to shut down the HEVAC before it can log in; non V8s don't do that.

    There is the Gateway ECU which my T4 doesn't talk to very well, but I have gotten enough out of it that with access to this fellow's car I might be able to do something anyway.

    The engine ECU (I guess via the Gateway ECU) does give more data than an EOBD scanner and I think I will be able to crack it, so worth doing.

    One strange thing is that when you connect an EOBD tool it talks to a V8 in Ford mode, just as it would to a Mustang ECU (I have one). So it seems to me that you can talk to the engine ECU either directly the Ford way, or the Rover way through the Gateway ECU.

    Probably Rover thought that it would be cheaper to do the diagnostics through a Gateway ECU and continue to use BMW style diagnostics that to change the T4 and make all the MG Rover dealers by "new" T4s. But I'm only guessing.

    Anyway the wierd thing is that I have a Ford tool that works on my Mustang ECU, but on the ZT 260... nothing. So you can talk to the ECU the Ford way with an EOBD tool in Ford mode, but a Ford tool in Ford mode not.

    So, this suggests that actually Rover did modify the ECUs and they aren't "just a Ford" ECU.

    Can anyone confirm?

  9. #29

    Default

    There is no evidence of the diagnostic protocol from the T4 to the Gateway ECU appearing on PWM pins of the diagnostic port that I can see. So it looks like there is no easy way to get around the back of the Gateway ECU and talk directly with Ford protocols as I had hoped. It is almost as if the Gateway has two PWM ports, one that goes to the diagnostic port and one that goes to the engine ECU, so the Gateway ECU converts from Rover (BMW DS2 derived) protocols to PWM on the Mustang ECU, and it also converts from PWM from an EOBD scannner to PWM on the Mustang ECU.

    Edit: The above is incorrect. See later post below.

    Anyway. I have done most of the work of reverse engineering the T4 protocols for the engine ECU and Gateway ECU. I can already connect to those ECUs so the basic protocol and the security works, it's just a case of finishing off reverse engineering the T4 and implementing in pscan.

    One problem I have is that the 260 that I'm working on in Ruislip has no error codes in the Gateway ECU, and so I can't tell how the T4 reads them and decodes them.

    Really I need to create an error code in the Gateway ECU. I suppose that pulling the fuse that powers the Mustang ECU would do it? Will this cause any trouble that I can't then easily correct with my T4?

    Can anyone suggest any easy, safe and reversible ways to cause the Gateway ECU to log one or more error codes?

    I need to do this but I can't take too much risk messing up someone elses car.
    Last edited by pscan.eu; 14-06-2019 at 08:26 PM.

  10. #30
    Registered User SCP440's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Witney Oxfordshire
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    One of the mechanics I know used to work for Kernahan's in Witney, this was a MGR dealership and they sold several 260's. He was telling me some 260's had to go back to the factory as some faults were unfixable at the dealerships even though they had all the tools and diagnostic software.

    Interstingly they had one car with a heater stuck on hot that ended up going back to the factory.

    Steve

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •