General impressions and questions from a non-owner

Hello All

Newbie here, but existing ZT190 owner.
I had the opportunity for a drive in a 260 recently, and although it did make me grin like a big kid, I wanted to ask a few questions.

1. How do the cars stand up to high mileage? (the one I was driving had 164,000 on the clock)
2. Whining diff - a common problem or indicative of mechanical wear and tare?
3. Front sub-frame can be a weak spot?
4. How long lasting are clutch and gearbox? (I understand it's an engine and gearbox out job if either need work, and that is expensive!)
5. Any other big expensive jobs - servicing and/or general maintenance/improvement which owners routinely have to do?

Thanks

Andrew

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Originally Posted by YorksMG2016

Hello All

Newbie here, but existing ZT190 owner.
I had the opportunity for a drive in a 260 recently, and although it did make me grin like a big kid, I wanted to ask a few questions.

1. How do the cars stand up to high mileage? (the one I was driving had 164,000 on the clock)
2. Whining diff - a common problem or indicative of mechanical wear and tare?
3. Front sub-frame can be a weak spot?
4. How long lasting are clutch and gearbox? (I understand it's an engine and gearbox out job if either need work, and that is expensive!)
5. Any other big expensive jobs - servicing and/or general maintenance/improvement which owners routinely have to do?

Thanks

Andrew

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1. Mines done 200,000 and runs sweet as a nut.
2. Mine doesn't but there are several reports here of those that do. Maybe poor servicing ?? Costs around 700 to replace I believe ?
3. ? ... but front struts are. Rear end subframe is susceptible to rusting as are rear springs causing breakage, though mine are AOK.
4. Can't say, Mine is a R75, so Auto, but that's fine at 200K.
5. Service costs pretty normal, I would say apart from the 5000 mile oil and filter changes. Best not play around with that if you value the motor. Chain not belt timing. Change at 150K. Air filter is expensive, but a K&N is washable and has a 500,000 mile guarantee. Diff oil and auto-box oils are expensive but scheduled changes are longish mean you don't have to do it too often. Gets through (particularly rear-) brake pads at a pace. Tyres tend to wear quickly if you 'treddle on', but that applies to most cars, I guess!

David

Can't fault David's answers apart from clutch and gearbox. Generally clutch should last upwards of 80,000 miles but depends how you use it. Mine went at 36,000 miles but that was due to a leaking slave cylinder. Gearboxes are pretty bullet proof. Clutch replacement requires an engine out procedure unless you want to bend the output shaft. Cost depends on what you are paying for labour.
As David says oil and filter every 5,000 miles is a bit of a pain, rear tyres every 8,000 miles (drive dependent).

Nich.

Any of these costs will be about the same if you want to drive a high performance car. I have just swapped my Saab 9-5 Aero for a ZTT 260 and there is nothing in it. A Saab Aero should have its oil changed at 6000 miles, a set of front tyres will be junk in less than 6000 miles. A clutch change is a days work so probably about the same as pulling the engine on one of these. I have a friend who runs a Merc and when he tells me what that costs to run that I have to ask why. He paid over £1200 recently to have his brakes replaced.

If you want performance it will cost.

Saying that these ''260s'' are unlikely to depreciate any more if kept in good order and when you think most stuff is loosing upwards of £100 a month and in a lot of cases £50 a week that has to be factored in.

My biggest concern when buying mine was spare parts but most parts seem to be well covered.

Steve

I sent a PM, but again (a premium welcome) ;)

WELCOME to the Two Sixties :D

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Thanks all

Not sure if I will be able to indulge in a 260 (but am thinking about it)
Wanted to be able to go into any evaluation/inspection/negotiations with at least some ideas of what to look at, and what to ask about.
For me would have to be an LPG car, and SE spec would be preferred but may be out of my purchase budget.

Cheers

Andrew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YorksMG2016

Thanks all

Not sure if I will be able to indulge in a 260 (but am thinking about it)
Wanted to be able to go into any evaluation/inspection/negotiations with at least some ideas of what to look at, and what to ask about.
For me would have to be an LPG car, and SE spec would be preferred but may be out of my purchase budget.

Cheers

Andrew

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Hi and WelcomeAndrew

Where in the country are you?
theres a gathering of us at Brooklands on Sunday 10th of April. Pop along if you can :cool:

Thanks Colin, but I'm up in Yorkshire so a bit of a treck down to Brooklands.
I am at POL in my ZT190 though, so will have a nosey around the 260s there on the day

Andrew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YorksMG2016

Thanks Colin, but I'm up in Yorkshire so a bit of a treck down to Brooklands.
I am at POL in my ZT190 though, so will have a nosey around the 260s there on the day

Andrew

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Cool, will be good to see you there :thumb

I'll be there too with Olive, my Chatsworth Rover 75 V8 Conny. Only Dutch registered one in existence in that colour, so you can't mistake it !
Looking forward to meeting you.

David

Andrew you mentioned diff whine. All the 260s I've heard have some diff whine. If your nit used to rear wheel drive you may be being over sensitive about ut.
Hope to see you at POL.

Thanks all for the warm welcome.
Looks like I'll be busy at POL! :-)

Andrew

There's the 23mpg to consider too. I used to have a 190 and haven't once regretted switching.

Damien

I hope to be looking for a 260 with LPG, so running costs become more reasonable (and it wouldn't be my 'everyday car' anyway)

Andrew

I wouldn't bother with LPG, keep it just like it is, you'll love it.

As it won't be your daily driver, you should be fine.

It may just be me but I don't get why anyone purchases a car with a big engine, only to fit LPG (or buy it already converted) to get it to do more MPG!

If you want economy, buy a smaller engine car (just my opinion of course).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mh007

If you want economy, buy a smaller engine car (just my opinion of course).

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Well said, if you want 50mpg by a Fiesta Diesel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SCP440

Fiesta Diesel.

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Fiesta - Yuk
Diesel - And Yuk again !!

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Originally Posted by damienp

Fiesta - Yuk
Diesel - And Yuk again !!

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"other makes available". But seriously, if the price difference LPG/Petrol is the difference between affording to own one or not, then you probably can't afford to run a 260, or any comparable type of car, anyway. Or you doing 40k miles+ per year which makes it worse when things start to need replacing because they have reached there normal "sell by" date.

... plus converting any car to LPG ain't exactly that cheap. You need to do a whole bunch of miles just to win back that investment.
... plus you have the tank to think about and the space it needs
... plus the disgusting smell
etc.

Been that route and have no intention of ever revisiting it!

Idle thoughts ...

David

I only said Fiesta Diesel as they are plentiful and cheap.

Yes exactly on the LPG conversion, I have seen several Jensen owners go down this route and they end up spending £2k + for the conversion and then find they cant buy it locally as either they have run out or there is no local station. You also loose boot space and in a lot of cases cars don't run as well.

As I have said before on this forum is you have to factor in almost Zero depreciation, normally this is the biggest cost on a used car but as long as you keep a 260 in good condition and don't do 20k miles a year the chances are you can run one of these for several years and probably sell it for what you paid for it as long as you have paid the market price.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damienp

There's the 23mpg to consider too. I used to have a 190 and haven't once regretted switching.

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Made me laugh that, 23 is not a figure im used to around town, winter use you'll be lucky to get 17. On a run possibly. I get 170 miles full to empty town driving short runs and 280 miles on a decent long run although my first 260 gave me 310 on a long run. But i love driving it the sound is intoxicating smiles per mile your looking at thousands 😊😆😉😎☺😃

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ken B

Made me laugh that, 23 is not a figure im used to around town, winter use you'll be lucky to get 17. On a run possibly. I get 170 miles full to empty town driving short runs and 280 miles on a decent long run although my first 260 gave me 310 on a long run. But i love driving it the sound is intoxicating smiles per mile your looking at thousands ☺

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On a 1000 mile trip up and down to Nick at Austin's did 22.5 out and 21 back (battle with a few Belgians). 90% motorway at the legal limit +5% on cruise. (Bit too much for the froggie-fuzz; must pay that euro-45 bill for 91kph instead of 90!).

... I guess I get about 15, no better, on my cold-engine start, 8mile+8mile daily commute in the winter. An average of 17-20 sounds about right for normal usage? Best I have EVER got was 25 on cruise at 60mph, sea-level, flat road, no passengers or luggage, air temp 15c., 990 mBar and around 90% humidity. Boring.

Better than my 5.3 XJ12L which was 1/1 (in litre/km terms = 2.35 mpg) on the 3 mile winter school-runs in the village ! Hummers are better!

David

Some of your attitudes to Autogas make it sound as if you are auditioning for the Harry Enfield character, the one who was "Considerably richer than yo!".

I can afford to run my 3 cars without having to consider the fuel costs because they all run on LPG. As a pensioner I am not in a position to increase my income so I chose to do it this way.
Admittedly I was able to convert my own cars so this helped the economics of it all. The cars all perform as well if not better than on petrol. Engines run cleaner both in an internal sense as well as environmentally.

As for the smell, well I had a diesel once and it was a miserable experience, not least because the stink of that stuff gets everywhere including your shoes as you paddle in the infernal stuff at the filling station. If you can smell the gas, then you have a leak and smell alerts you to that. Or you are deliberately sniffing it, which is not good but not unknown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bernard lpg

Some of your attitudes to Autogas make it sound as if you are auditioning for the Harry Enfield character, the one who was "Considerably richer than yo!".

I can afford to run my 3 cars without having to consider the fuel costs because they all run on LPG. As a pensioner I am not in a position to increase my income so I chose to do it this way.
Admittedly I was able to convert my own cars so this helped the economics of it all. The cars all perform as well if not better than on petrol. Engines run cleaner both in an internal sense as well as environmentally.

As for the smell, well I had a diesel once and it was a miserable experience, not least because the stink of that stuff gets everywhere including your shoes as you paddle in the infernal stuff at the filling station. If you can smell the gas, then you have a leak and smell alerts you to that. Or you are deliberately sniffing it, which is not good but not unknown.

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Here, here !
I thought that thread was going wonkey!

As a Newbie it seems I have stirred the nest a bit (not my intention)

There are people in life who are able to, and happy to, pay full price for things.
Then there are people who prefer to wait for the sales, or at least to shop around to make that purchase more affordable.
I am in the 2nd category.

So let's agree to differ, and acknowledge that we all have an interest in, and liking for the ZT260 and/or the v8 R75 (whether we are fortunate enough to own one or not)

Andrew

Yes Andrew I compleatly agree, it doesn't matter what you run your car on, as long as you run your car. Also if you want economy then a zt or 75 cdti would be the car of choice in my opinion.

Thanks Stan

As I said when I started the thread, I own a ZT190 (which I love) but having recently driven a 260, then I feel the beginnings of an addiction which I am sure everyone on here has! :-)

If I were lucky enough to be able to get the right 260 for me (at the right price) then I will keep my 190 as everyday transport

Andrew

I come from a ZT190 background, and have had the 260 for quite a few years now. The 260, for me, is no more expensive to run than the 190, including all fuel and servicing considerations. My 190 dropped from the 5k I paid after the demise of a MGR to £1,800 in two or three years. My 260, if it were still standard, would be worth the same now as I bought it for maybe 7 years ago.

The temptation to improve the 260 has, however, cost me a small fortune!

The 190 is a thirsty car, and with VIS valves encouraging you to keep the revs over 4,500 for full power you can crack through the fuel quickly. The 260 is effortless, you can poddle about in fifth at 30mph and gently sip fuel. That said, you can supercharge it and drive it hard and get well done into single figures, but that just a choice you make when you decide to plant the loud pedal.

In the long run, LPG converted or not, a 260 is a no-brainer over a 190. The real difference is in the sale price of a 190 against the purchase price of a similar condition 260. If you can get over that difference financially, then the rest really isn't a significant difference.

As a daily driver there will be differences, but I'm talking about it as a special car that does around 5k miles a year. You'd need a 190 oil change yearly anyway, for example.

Absolutely. "There ain't a substitute for inches".

David

I also own a 190 (aswell as far too many other Rover 75's & a ZT-T, all KV6's apart from one 1.8) & as already said, the 260 just plods along (if you want it to) at such low RPM, it's just effortless.
I love all my cars & the it's fair to say, even my 190 just pulls itself along without having to thrash it.
I guess a lot depends on how a driver tends to drive as to how slow (or fast) the fuel gauge drops.

On the LPG front, we use a self refillable gas system to power the systems in our Motorhome (not the engine, it's diesel) we fill the tank at service/petrol stations.
we have noticed and have also been informed by petroleum company's that some are starting to reduce stations with LPG.

Apparently this is due to dwindling demand, and lack of support from the government.

SJR

Thanks SJR - good old government, always messing the people about!

Anyway I hope to meet a few members at POL and have a good chat about 260 ownership (and if anyone does have an Lpg car there, I woul​d be REALLY interested to have a look)

Andrew

Trikey has a LPG converted car for sale, the mileage is high (sorry!) but a lovely car to drive.

Having had two 260's converted I think I can offer my opinions on that subject, first I converted both cars as they were my daily drivers and I hit c30,000 miles a year and it just made sense, it is a bit silly to suggest on V8 forum to go and get a fiesta diesel instead.

On the subject of availability etc you need to check if you have any garages locally that sell the stuff but when travelling you need to plan ahead to see where you can fill up. Other systems may be able to do the same but I used a free phone based sat nav called Waze, you can set it for LPG and it will show you where you can fill up on your route and the prices.

Also while there may be LPG garages locally you need to check what systems they deal with, there are many systems and most garages will only deal with one or two.

Thanks ksilver

I have driven Trikey's silver 260 twice recently (I was lucky enough to have it as a courtesy car whilst my ZT190 was having work done by Andy).
Although that car is not for me (I have a hankering for a Mk.1 in some flavour of blue) it did stir an interest in becoming a 260 owner.
I will be chatting to some of the 260s at POL and my be joining the brotherhood in a month or so if my plans work out (dependent of course on finding a car which ticks most of my boxes!)

Andrew